Talk:Leqir
Ki Amping Considering even Raditz could tank moon-vaping blasts without injury, how did Cooler manage to lose so many soldiers? Were his soldiers weaker than Saibamen? I mean, even Raditz knew how to use Ki to amp his strikes, and we have seen the advantage it gives. So does this mean that the Leqir are strong enough to destroy islands with their blows?Geti186 (talk) 05:17, December 2, 2013 (UTC) Most of Cooler's soldiers have power levels in the low thousands. Consider Payar, who was born with one of over 3000. So adults would have even higher levels. But because they can't use ki, their high strength couldn't repel Cooler's forces forever (particularly against soldiers who are flying). Good question though. -KidVegeta (talk) So this just means that their Ki is just internalized, and that they are unable to expel it? Because being unable to use Ki would mean that they are unable to enhance their strengthGeti186 (talk) 05:31, December 2, 2013 (UTC) They are unable to use ki, but they can still gain power from training and whatnot. They don't have ki inside them. -KidVegeta (talk) Didn't you see the disparity between Goku's lifting strength and striking force? Ki makes a crapton of difference. Also, I don't really see how they could possibly train to the level of dishing out moon-destroying strikes.Geti186 (talk) 05:49, December 2, 2013 (UTC) I never said they would destroy moons with their strikes. But the extent of their power is in physical strength. -KidVegeta (talk) The trait of warriors with 1000+ PL is that they can easily survive the force of blasts which destroy moons. Your Leqirs would logically need to have far greater strength to even come close to harming Cooler's soldiers. Based on canon, your soldiers can, and survive those same blasts. How did they lose to Leqirs then?Geti186 (talk) 05:53, December 2, 2013 (UTC) As I stated above, Leqiri are usually born with power levels of around 3000 and grow stronger as they get older. -KidVegeta (talk) You said they can't use Ki, which means they can't amp the force of their strikes, or their muscles with Ki. So please do tell how they match Cooler's soldiers in strength. You gave me a power level which has utterly no relevance when you yourself said that they cannot use Ki. Here I am asking about their physical strength (of which I have received no proper reply).Geti186 (talk) 06:07, December 2, 2013 (UTC) A power level (also known as battle power) measures one's strength. One does not need ki to grow in power (see Mr. Satan or most of the humans in the tournaments of Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z). This is how the Dragon Ball universe functions. -KidVegeta (talk) Power Level measures the amount of Ki in one's body. Whether they can access it or not depends on the user. In this case, the Leqirs can't access their Ki. Even if they grow in power, they aren't going to match someone who knows perfectly well how to use their Ki, as it is the Ki granting them phenomenal strength.Geti186 (talk) 06:30, December 2, 2013 (UTC) They are at a disadvantage against people who use ki, yes. It's like how a good swordsman is still suseptible to an arrow from a marksman. -KidVegeta (talk) Please explain how the Leqirs conjure strength that is greater than the energy required for the complete and absolute destruction of the moon, because that's the difference we're talking about here.Geti186 (talk) 06:46, December 2, 2013 (UTC) Please sign your posts. ~''Hyper Zergling'' 06:42, December 2, 2013 (UTC) Leqiri are not human, so they have different physiology. They are born with high inherent strength and this strength grows even higher as they age, mostly from training and/or tunneling out new places to live and feed from. Leqiri are predisposed for gaining muscle mass - enough to raise their power level to the ranges discussed earlier. This is a biological advantage they have, but their disadvantage is that they are not ki-sensitive. -KidVegeta (talk) I think you are missing the point. I know very well of their physiology granting them absurd strength. What I am asking is how this absurd strength can match up to soldiers who shrug off moon-destroying blasts and strikes without a bother in the world? In case you didn't know, "tunnelling" doesn't grant you moon-destroying strength.Geti186 (talk) 06:54, December 2, 2013 (UTC) I have explained before, but I will do so again. Leqiri have higher power levels. Most of Cooler's soldiers have power levels in the low thousands (this is true for the Planet Trade Organization in general). As Leqiri are born with power levels of around 3000 and may grow that level 5, 10, and even 100x higher, they can take on other soldiers as well. Power level is the way of measuring all of this. -KidVegeta (talk) A guy with 3000 PL without the ability to access Ki is going to be a crapton weaker than a guy with 1000 PL accessing Ki. That's just how Ki works. I'm asking how they gain the Biological Strength to shatter Moons. So you have Hercule and Videl. Let's say Hercule has a higher measured Power Level, 50, for example, and Videl's Power Level is 25. Videl is still going to kick Hercule's ass pretty easily because she has access to Ki and can amplify her strength likewise. The thing is, no matter what you try to say, the truth is that your soldiers, even with all their huge power levels, cannot hope to match Cooler's men, as the Ki they have, while huge, is inaccessible, and even if strength was their natural, strong side, I highly doubt its usefulness against soldiers which make short work of the moon, and tank those same attacks.Geti186 (talk) 07:34, December 2, 2013 (UTC) Are you suggesting that a Leqir with a power level of, say, 60,000 would be unable to do anything against a regular Cooler soldier with a power level of 2000-5000? -KidVegeta (talk) Without Ki, Yes. Look at Goku who had problems lifting 40 tons with muscular strength, he would be killed by Raditz if he did not have Ki/is unable to access Ki.Geti186 (talk) 07:38, December 2, 2013 (UTC) The outcome of a fight is almost entirely based off power level. How well you can use ki has absolutely nothing to do with it. What you're stating, Geti, is simply incorrect. ~''Hyper Zergling'' 07:40, December 2, 2013 (UTC) Well, seeing as you don't really understand how power levels work (not surprising, based upon the characters you make), I don't really have much more to say. What you think is just factually incorrect. Power level are what matters in the Dragon Ball universe. It doesn't matter if it's physical or ki power. A higher power level means the user is stronger, no matter what. -KidVegeta (talk) Coming from the guy whose logic is flawed, that isn't saying much. 1) Power levels are exponential in their effects, considering the power level required to destroy the moon is absurdly low (139) 2) The mere fact that your soldiers have higher power levels (of 3k, nonetheless), would mean that your Leqirs would be curbstomping them if they could use Ki, and from what I gather the Power Level system is a system which measures the target's Ki. Since they can't use Ki, the more important question is how they hurt people with Moon level durability, which is the durability level of Cooler's troops. (Your Leqirs are all Superman now?) 3) You don't even read my characters, so why do you say that I don't understand how Power Levels work based on my characters? You should do your homework and actually read up on what Power Level actually is. Geti186 (talk) 09:33, December 2, 2013 (UTC) No Answer? So I'm guessing Goku's power level without Ki is 60, amirite? I mean, Goku had problems with 40 tons! Wow! Master Roshi can destroy the moon. Piccolo can destroy the moon as well, and all at several hundred Power Level! Guess what, destroying the moon is harder than shadowboxing with 40 tons! Isn't that a surprise? So your Leqirs can absolutely mangle and annihilate Cooler's squadron, whose strikes can destroy the moon completely? All through simple "Tunnelling" and "Sparring"? Your Leqirs' can shatter continents with 1 blow now? Please do explain what kind of food they eat then, I mean, just IMAGINE the number of JOULES of ENERGY that must take, since they don't use Ki at all.Geti186 (talk) 12:19, December 3, 2013 (UTC) I don't know how food has anything to do with how strong they are. At this point, the argument is getting nowhere. KidVegeta has already laid out every possible explanation, and you are either ignoring his arguments deliberately or you simply fail to understand them. There is no sense in wasting time and energy on someone who can't be convinced by fairly simple logic. ~''Hyper Zergling'' 15:24, December 3, 2013 (UTC) Maybe you should go and understand what Power Level is first, since PL measures Ki, not physical strength. There's a reason why PL is an energy reading that can be calculated with numbers. Not to mention that since they don't use Ki, there should be another energy source available to them. And since it's obviously not solar energy, what do they eat then? You'd need phenomenal amounts of energy to even deal the appropriate damage to Cooler's soldiers. Not to mention that this is without Ki. All I'm asking for is what kind of energy do they use.Geti186 (talk) 02:33, December 4, 2013 (UTC) Physical. -KidVegeta (talk) You must have failed Physics. What do they eat?Geti186 (talk) 03:52, December 4, 2013 (UTC) Their diet is specified on their page. -KidVegeta (talk) So by eating subterranean roots, plants, and fungi, without the aid of a supernatural power (Ki), they are miraculously strong enough to defeat entities who shrug off moon-shattering blows? Good day to you sir, your logic is beyond saving.Geti186 (talk) 05:45, December 4, 2013 (UTC) See ya. -KidVegeta (talk)